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 Backstab, Backstab II chains

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Carden



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PostSubject: Backstab, Backstab II chains   Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:19 pm

Neither Backstab nor backstab2 chains are doing anything similar to live dps. Please raise ALL hidden attack styles as you raised Perf Artery AND the styles that follow in the chains. This includes the styles chained off of PA, btw.

Stealth attacks are already impossibly hard, so please lets play nice and reward those 2 0r 3 assassins who actually use the proper moves with proper dps:)

Thanks!

Buddy Carde
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Sivax



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PostSubject: Re: Backstab, Backstab II chains   Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:43 pm

stealth attacks are crazy easy to get off, you can ready them well out of range and let them walk right into it
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Jugg



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PostSubject: Re: Backstab, Backstab II chains   Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:31 am

Since you are going to be upping the Assassins damage, you are going to have to help lightly armored people to keep the balance. I mean you will now effectively be messing with the balance of classic classes and you will do nothing more than offset the server even more. What Carden really wants is the ability to Perf Chain down a Juggernaut.

You should think long and hard before adding damage and the re-percussion's it's going to have to all other classes, for the sole enjoyment of Carden to kill a Jugg. Because hey, that's what this is really about.

I mean to keep the ratio evened out, every other class besides a Jugg should now get an ABS (or increased ABS) buff.

It would be a lot easier to just give Carden an "IWIN" button he can plug into a USB slot, because that is gonna be what it takes for him to be happy with a nightshade.
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Carden



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PostSubject: Re: Backstab, Backstab II chains   Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:52 am

I hastily wrote the first post in this thread and am now taking the time to fill in some blanks for the uninitiated to better inform themselves or hone their flame techniques.

First, I have an abundance of respect stones and have varied my spec from high critical strike to full zerk, now occupying a more utility driven balanced spec. So I have been landing the full Perforate Artery chain, in addition to Backstab/Backstab 2. My observations on the custom non full tanks, hybrids, and even custom stealthers is as follows: many classes here survive the full chain while being dotted, str/con debuffed, and diseased, AND they even finish fights with full bars of health often enough for it to be absurd (see: HOTS with insanely high value). Ordinarily, a full CS attack on most non heavy tanks is a death sentence. Here, it is a crapshoot for me even when every style lands and the target is stunned while I style freely. Since the Admin has stated that the assassins are intended to do their damage in the Critical Strike line, perfect execution of CS styles against non heavy tanks should have a more reasonable outcome that either favors the assassin or at least reasonably approaches a fair fight. Bear in mind that my anecdotal evidence involves fully debuffing, dotting, snaring, and diseasing targets, which still hammer through fights as if bitten by a flea.

Regarding the perceived ease of landing Critical Strike styles:

[
left]There are no melee styles or spells in DaoC that require (1) Stealth plus a (2) limited position of engagement and (3) timing the intersection between the stealthed/slowed aggressor and a fully mobile, often speeded up target. These are not anytime; moreover, CS styles are often and easily made to fail when the target is aware of assassin presence by jumping, turning, and the gutter ball window drag/chat drag/lag drag. Furthermore, the main dps is critical strike, per Admin, leaving left axe, dual wield, or Celtic Dual in conjunction with natural weapon spec doing non-tank damage table secondary dps. If the prose confuses you, just consider Antebellum expects us to survive by crit strike, leaving us hanging in the wind otherwise.

While I am writing for myself, this post applies to Shadowblades, Infiltrators and Nightshades. All are performing below reasonable expectations. Assassins are seldom seen here because of this, not just Nightshades. Reflect on that prior to additional rants and flames insinuating that I am merely out to better my particular class. If, as my detractors harp, if it were my desire to run an IWIN assassin, I would have chosen something stronger and more resilient than a Lurikeen shade. I enjoy somewhat uneven odds and a challenge, and all I am suggesting Admin do is remedy the extremely uneven odds and frequently insurmountable challenge to something only *less* unfair. I can make up the difference just fine.
[/left]

~Buddy Carde
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Krossfire



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PostSubject: Re: Backstab, Backstab II chains   Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:25 am

i can sum up your entire post in 4 words ... are you ready for this? here we go...


Take Lessons From Dajockamo!


or however the hell he spells his name, because clearly he is doing something correct, while you on the other hand just seem to flounder about. he can Kill, so why cant you? it cant be the user, Oh heavens no! how silly of me to suggest such.
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Jugg



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PostSubject: Re: Backstab, Backstab II chains   Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:25 am

What I read from that is, you cannot seem to initiate correct positioning on your target either from your lack of a proper gaming PC, poor internet connection, or just plain lack of skill. Now if you (a stealther) somehow give away your position, which causes someone to jump, turn, stealth lore and ultimately detract from your ability to open on them, well that is your fault!

Now, Here are some words from Carden himself....

This is what he really thinks about classic classes.




This is him stating how that when he plays a stealther correctly, he wiped a six man group. Which he boasted about for around two hours last night.



I would hope you see that his proposals are just a means for him to step out of his role, and play a stealther as a one man wrecking crew.

I believe most of his problems stem from himself as a player. His problem with stealth lore, customs having equal stealth, MOS and a long line of other things. He can not seem to get off his positionals, this he needs more damage, and everything else anyone gets needs to be nerfed.

AGAIN, I must refute his claims, as we all know he is great on paper. He is just horrible in game!

As for asking Dajockamo, you really should. He seems to have no problem with even my Juggernaut, and thats without even being stealthed.


P.S.
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Carden



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PostSubject: Re: Backstab, Backstab II chains   Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:02 am



You are taking /b out of context, which is laughable. Be invited to check the server logs for assassin performance. Admin is also invited to check my inventory and behold the uber weapons I am using that nobody else has....that have empowered me to enrage the masses and hit the awe inspiring rank of 4.1. Otherwise, /b fanclub, you are not smart enough to know what is going on in /b nor when the inside joke is hatched upon you:) Fortunately xrealm chat does not lend itself to a spreadsheat like good old fashioned numbers.

Juggs and Kross have raged me with peculiar singularity since before I was level 40, and are bent on spreading misery in game and here with their flames and disinformation. I dont count them as a small fanclub of mine, either.

If you dont know what youre talking about or cannot post without flaming, troll somewhere else, ragey kids:) While your particular aching bottoms over justifiably nerfed down joke classes may pucker for me, show some scintilla of class on the technical forum, eh?

Thanks for the laugh, but seriously this is grown up talk.
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Jugg



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PostSubject: Re: Backstab, Backstab II chains   Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:57 pm

If you do not want a reply you do not like, you are always free to keep to yourself or use the private message system.

You call us "ragey kids". The youngest of us is 24 we all have children, in fact the younger of them remind me a lot of you. They cry to be cuddled and told that they are loved, they lash out for attention, and on occasion lie to try and get out of awkward situations they have gotten themselves into. I mean what is it man, are you underpowered and under skilled like you say you are on the forums? or are you the big bad wolf like you portray in the game?

I do not exclusively flame you Carden, I do dislike:

  • The utter disregard you have towards new players.
  • I have seen you tell hibbies to re-roll so you can kill them while they level.
  • I have seen you yelling at lowbies to stay out of "your" dungeon on many occurrence as to which you were promptly removed.
  • You attack people and their idea's in broad.
  • You have been a huge Bigot (don't make me prove that) toward those of other nationalities.
  • You play here but hate custom classes, and name call anyone who plays one and that you are somehow better.


I would go as far to say that, when it comes right down to it, I think everyone, I mean everyone flames you about equally. Although I am active on the forums and it seems like I am targeting you exclusively, I am not. It just happens that what you post is usually an objective opinion which stems from your in-ability to play your charecter. As stated before, either due to your PC, your connection or your skill. So with this in mind, the performance of assassins will be at an obvious disadvantage when compared to other classes you do not play. On a side note, I have never complained about the weapons you use, or do not use. I have merely presented multiple instances of which you yourself have provided evidence that you think contrary to what you post. Furthermore, I would be at extreme surprise if anyone had any inside joke with you, about you yes, with you.. I doubt.. unless it is with yourself on your warden or your druid.

Anyhow back to the TOPIC.

I still believe that increased damage should be thoroughly tested. It could have profound balance implications, mainly to the squishy type and light tank variety of the classic classes, along with other stealthers like scouts/rangers/hunters. Since it seems no one is happy on how you have handled customs, Carden being your biggest opposition. I only seek to warn that any hastily formed changes to any classic class, may only cause further harm to the declining state of the realm.


P.S. I do love seeing updates everyday, I love seeing that you are actively trying. I just think that while your trial and error is being applied, you are also suffering from the same demise every MMO that wields the nerf stick does. Except at an increased rate, because you're doing it everyday... day in, day out, people are getting nerfed over and over. I believe this is a main contributor to the 50%-70% loss of population in the last couple weeks (a month ago this server was peaking at 150), the second is Carden's lips all over /b

P.S.S Carden, I actually liked you the first day we met. You begged us to leave you alone. We obliged until about two hours later when you were slaughtering lowbies and yelling at them.
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Sivax



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PostSubject: Re: Backstab, Backstab II chains   Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:49 pm

yea i would say assassins are completely fine. My inf is Dajockamo and ive been able to kill pretty much any class if i get pa off and even without if i land dragonfang in a timely manner and i catch a lucky break or two. Assassins need no more help. granted backstab damage is kinda crappy but PA is so easy to land here there is no real point in going for it. We don't need any more boosts. The only things that MAYBE need to be messed with is the amount of left hand weapons available and MAYBE lowering the reuse on Transcendence or whatever is from 20 min to maybe like 15, it is super powerful but the 20 min reuse is pretty big
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